Curse

Daesu · Oct 29, 2011, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfamousMyzt

It's about speed, not how to complete it, mate.

And speed depends on the player familiarity of the area + player skill much more than the build.

untitled2005 · Oct 29, 2011, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

And speed depends on the player familiarity of the area + player skill much more than the build.

I beg to differ. We are talking about MTSC for Savior of the Kurzicks title, not just one-time vanq. You need to do the vanq MT HM 250 times in order to go from Rank 1 to Rank 12. So build matters a lot. Most balanced builds can get you slightly under 30 min, but an optimized build can get you very close to 20 min, so that saves you almost 10min per run, and try to multiply that by 250. That's more than 41 hrs of playing time that you could save by investing a little time to tweak your heroes.

Daesu · Oct 29, 2011, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled2005

I beg to differ. We are talking about MTSC for Savior of the Kurzicks title, not just one-time vanq. You need to do the vanq MT HM 250 times in order to go from Rank 1 to Rank 12. So build matters a lot. Most balanced builds can get you slightly under 30 min, but an optimized build can get you very close to 20 min, so that saves you almost 10min per run, and try to multiply that by 250. That's more than 41 hrs of playing time that you could save by investing a little time to tweak your heroes.

I still consider that someone who is familiar with the patrol patterns and area would vanquish it a lot faster than someone who is not and tends to double/triple aggro everything. If we are only considering the set of good decent builds, then player skills/area familiarity would impact the times, more than the slight differences between those builds.

If a build has alot offense (i.e. not much defense) then one has to rely more on skills and proper pulling to get the best times, because you only have a limited number of skill slots in your team. On the other hand, if a build has too much defense then you can c-space more but you also kill slower. In the end, as long as the build has decent offense and defense, it is the player skill and area familiarity that makes the differences in the times.

Players tend to over emphasize build over player skill and area familiarity.

untitled2005 · Oct 29, 2011, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I still consider that someone who is familiar with the patrol patterns and area would vanquish it a lot faster than someone who is not and tends to double/triple aggro everything. If we are only considering the set of good decent builds, then player skills/area familiarity would impact the times, more than the slight differences between those builds.

If a build has alot offense (i.e. not much defense) then one has to rely more on skills and proper pulling to get the best times, because you only have a limited number of skill slots in your team. On the other hand, if a build has too much defense then you can c-space more but you also kill slower. In the end, as long as the build has decent offense and defense, it is the player skill and area familiarity that makes the differences in the times.

Players tend to over emphasize build over player skill and area familiarity.

I am not say that familiarity with the area and player build are not important per se. They are just taken for granted in the discussion of MTSC. Even the least experienced player will remember every patrol, every pop-up and even every rock if he does MTSC on a regular basis. BTW, if you have to pull or flag your heroes at all anywhere in MTSC (no matter what your character's profession is), you really need another hero build. As for player build, AP caller is the default for most professions. You just need to spam it nonstop.

I think you have to try a few dozen MTSCs before you realize the importance of hero builds. Try it 20 times, you will understand what we are talking about here.

Essence Snow · Oct 29, 2011, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Mt groups (like most) do have the nice lil self-ball tactic that one can exploit for nice aoe spikes.

Daesu · Oct 30, 2011, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled2005

I am not say that familiarity with the area and player build are not important per se. They are just taken for granted in the discussion of MTSC. Even the least experienced player will remember every patrol, every pop-up and even every rock if he does MTSC on a regular basis. BTW, if you have to pull or flag your heroes at all anywhere in MTSC (no matter what your character's profession is), you really need another hero build. As for player build, AP caller is the default for most professions. You just need to spam it nonstop.

I think you have to try a few dozen MTSCs before you realize the importance of hero builds. Try it 20 times, you will understand what we are talking about here.

I have cleared MT so many times that I am sick of it now. If you are too used to builds that don't require you to flag your heroes then you have probably more defense in your builds than it is really needed.

untitled2005 · Oct 30, 2011, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I have cleared MT so many times that I am sick of it now. If you are too used to builds that don't require you to flag your heroes then you have probably more defense in your builds than it is really needed.

Why don't you share your build? I just start MTSC and have been toying with hero builds. I could really use some help from experts. Here is my build to start off. Note it's 21min, but mostly I got 22 or 23min no con of coz. I don't see it's overly defensive. IMO the best defense is offense. There is really no need for pulling or flagging with MTSC. All mobs are walk-over. Flagging only slows you down. But I am open to suggestions to get faster.

Daesu · Oct 30, 2011, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled2005

Why don't you share your build? I just start MTSC and have been toying with hero builds. I could really use some help from experts. Here is my build to start off. Note it's 21min, but mostly I got 22 or 23min no con of coz. I don't see it's overly defensive. IMO the best defense is offense. There is really no need for pulling or flagging with MTSC. All mobs are walk-over. Flagging only slows you down. But I am open to suggestions to get faster.

All I am saying is, in MT as in many areas in the game, area familiarity and skill can mean a difference of whether you clear it in 20 mins or in 40 mins, even when using the exact same build.

Yes, it is an easy area and I can understand why you dont need to flag at all in such an easy area. I am more interested in using heroes for elite areas and these are the areas where you need to flag and pull rather than c-spacing everything.